DISQUS

Online Cricket Games · 1 year ago

A lot of people don't realized that in FaceBook or MySpace, we're at the mercy of the platform vendors. All our particulars are in there and they could easily manipulate the data. If not, how do you explain getting tons of unsolicited calls from companies. I've got 100+ Facebook alerts on my email account. It's getting scary.

Back Pain · 12 months ago

Yes, we users don't have any rights. There's a scheme by YouTube that will affect YouTube users worldwide. You can read more about YouTube Blackout.

Christopher S. Penn · 2 years ago

Having burned through several accounts on all the major social networks, you're dead on. The social networks are lead generators only, and their sole purpose is to drive traffic to YOUR properties, the ones you own, the ones you have nearly sole control over.

The reality is that the social networks are sales platforms for ads, and for the controlling companies to make money off your content. Our goal as smaller, independent content creators is to siphon off their user base as quickly as possible.

Remember this above all else: we live or die by our database - and if our database is owned by someone else, we're dead and just waiting to be buried.

baratunde · 2 years ago

boo ya! you are super correcto Chris. I like that callous attitude of yours. Let's siphon those fools!!

Jeff Greco · 2 years ago

Their actions are entirely bogus and shameful, especially because they'll never make a public statement about the overarching reasons they're shutting you (and probably others) down.

Social networking is about communication, and it's a damn shame to see a company who was at the front of this new wave of communication tools start to retract. I wouldn't be very surprised to see them introduce a tiered sponsored group structure for bands/comedians/performers as they start trying to squeeze every cent from the "community."

shai · 2 years ago

When I read your first critique of facebook a week or two ago, I thought, this would be a great basis for building a new facebook app, maybe one specialized around promoting independent artists or something like that. Seems like it fits both of your purposes: you get to be where the people are, AND you get to keep the data. Also, there's probably more interesting stuff you can do with an app than with a group (like allow your followers to buy tickets to your shows, rate your videos, etc.) I still haven't read up much on apps, but it seems like something worth examining. Have you thought about that at all?

baratunde · 2 years ago

My boy DoYouKnowClarence just pointed me to this excellent critique of Facebook's closed nature over at Eloquation

Todd Van Hoosear · 2 years ago

Facebook groups suck. Why can't you treat a group page like your profile, and add apps, etc? Why all the limitations? I understand their desire to not go down the commercial use path, but there are plenty of legitimate people with large social spheres that find the limitations frustrating and are leaving Facebook--you and Chris Brogan are just two examples. That's just not good for the platform, which otherwise I'm a big fan of, even considering the poor portability of content and the somewhat intrusive copyright policies.

elizabeth · 2 years ago

I had the same exact issue with a Facebook group that had slightly over 500 members--I had known from the past that they set limits to group messages, but for some reason, I thought it was for groups with over 1000 people. I tried to google for more info at the time, but to no avail.

I think Facebook is hurting itself by not being transparent about the issue. If you're going to set a limit like that, at least tell your members so they can decide if they want to kick out out their 500th member or even use a Facebook group at all. (In all seriousness, though, I completely agree with the dangers of investing in a closed platform like that of Facebook--especially when they are free to turn anything off at their whim.)

firelite · 5 months ago

Also, there's probably more interesting stuff you can do with an app than with a group (like allow your followers to buy tickets to your shows, rate your videos, etc.) I still haven't read up much on apps, but it seems like something worth examining.mandy

baratunde · 2 years ago

@elizabeth two great points.

I would never have created the group in the first place if I knew there was a cutoff. Facebook has created an unnecessarily dissatisfied customer. I may have been ambivalent. Now I am angry.

As for them turning things off on a whim, it does not have to go so far. They could merely suffer an outage or breach or go out of business. The INTENTION is much less important to me than the CONSEQUENCE which is that I get screwed because they avoid openness and portability.

I will now refer to Facebook as Faceboooo. That'll learn em

EricaJoy · 2 years ago

I think I understand Facebooks POV. It's built to be a social networking platform and they are making sure it remains that. I am all for its limits as its not meant to be a promotional/mass messaging platform. I can understand your anger at not being able to message your group, but at the same time, Facebook never made you any guarantees that you would be able to do this. On the flip side, Facebook should definitely have some sort of documentation as to what its limits are.

Last thing: If Facebook ever explicitly gives group creators/leaders/whatever or App developers the ability to export the contact information of its members/users, I'll delete my account. I have my email address viewable to only my friends for a reason.

baratunde · 2 years ago

@ericajoy

thanks for an alternate perspective. I agree about letting email addresses go without a user's permission. I am so livid right now that I get emails about Facebook apps in my gmail inbox, and these are apps I do not even have installed -- they're just letting me know that someone WANTS me to install them.

as for guarantees in being able to message my group, there is an implied guarantee via the existence of the "message all group members" link which worked until it suddenly didn't. Documentation is the bare minimum. I think I'm owed a PUBLIC explanation as to what the policy is even if it is not set.

In terms of FB not being "meant to be" a promo/mass messaging platform, maybe. Email wasn't meant to be that. Nor was the US postal service, but both evolved to support things like mailing lists, direct mail, etc.

I think it will be very hard for Facebook to maintain a zero mass messaging policy considering that mass messaging is also a SOCIAL need. e.g. i want to message or otherwise post a notice to all the gnomedex friends I made with links to my photos or something.

It is a tough balance for fbook. I'm not saying it should be easy, but there should definitely be more transparency. I would never have created a group there if I knew things would go down like they have.

Podcast Junky UK · 2 years ago

I totally sympathise with you regarding farcebook. I was locked out from my own account and I've had many people posting comments at my blog too just lke all of these here.

Great blog by the way... subscribed to your rss.

Kind regards

Podcast Junky UK

Amy Strecker · 2 years ago

Gosh! As someone who's been a facebook advocate amongst my flittering social network friends I'm disappointed to hear this. Bottom line: these people ASKED for you to contact them by joining your group and facebook said, "eh, I don't think so..." I think there is power in you trying to mobilize your facebook group members to contact facebook with their complaints. I greatly respect facebook's commitment to not being the overwhelming, poorly organized experience MySpace is, however some of the artificial limitations are unnecessary.

Erica is right about open access to e-mail addresses, but it would be easy to have a member opt in or out of providing their email address to a group when they join.

I enjoying my first read of this blog and I'll be interested to know what happens next.

Bertil · 2 years ago

First of all, thanks for being a musician. I don't know many technologist who proclaim their love as often as it is deserved (i.e. all the time) except maybe Steve Jobs for everyone in general, Dylan in particular and the Beatles when he'll can. You make every coder's day sunnier.

Facebook have a grander vision then MySpace, and they are very careful, sometimes too much. Like Google they see further and shy away from what is a good idea, but is indistinguishable (for a server) form a bad one. A cool group about something anyone can agree with (World Peace anyone?) could use it's user-base to sell poorly targeted ads. That's not what you are offering; because of that, they still feel they have to shy away from Appreciation Society.

They are all the more cold-footed a few kinks went wrong: of course Zombie is annoying to anyone who is more then 14 y.o., i.e. allowed to *be* on Facebook in the first place -- but the cool thing is that, as soon as you see it, you can ban it with one click; all the more, the viral property has recently been emasculated (cutting your own diffusion capability).

I sincerely believe their grander vision is based, allows and should drive your attention to that thing they are the only one to have, namely :

> great basis for building a new facebook app

I can't use iLike (I'm in Europe) but I assume they have the capability to develop an "Fan" app, or Fan-features in their existing app that would help you greatly. Maybe a "Musician" module that could be the second side of their platform. Do you think you could have you and fellow musician come together, forward your concerns to them or to Slide, and, e.g. offer a margin on CDs, iTunes tracks, concert seats that you sold through them? They are looking for business model, and you have one.

baratunde · 2 years ago

@bertil, you are hilarious dude. "thanks for being a musician." Sorry I didn't make it clear, but I'm a comedian. My instruments are my mind and my mouth, both of which run constantly. You are the 5th person to suggest a Facebook app. I'm investigating it.

@amy, I did try to mobilize my facebook friends. I changed my status to have them send help tickets complaining. I have no idea if it worked.

Since all this has gone down, I've had a chance to cool off a bit, and I appreciate the perspectives defending Facebook's challenging position. It's a delicate balance they are trying to hold. I get that. So besides my great wishlist for all things my way and all things open, all I really want is for them to state publicly what these evolving policies are.

thanks so much for all these comments. I had no idea this post would strike such a nerve. It's almost as big as the post I wrote criticizing Apple. Talk about passionate users. dang.

john beckwith · 2 years ago

Great post- wish I had read it sooner!

It's pretty clear that despite all of it's shortcomings FB will succeed on the hype created by venture capitalists, desperate for the "next google" to extend this current boom. How do you think a_website can have nearly the same valuation as Ford Motor Co.? Rising tide raises all ships, friends.

I worked for an online social networking company who are surfing this hype like kelly slater to the tune of 6 mil injection of VC cash just this year. The product stinks! But hey, if FB is worth 15 billion...

Venture captialists are some of the dumbest most predictable people you'll ever have the pleasure of nearly getting run over by in their porsches. It's not about connecting people. It's about making your board even richer.

Ontario Emperor · 2 years ago

I got to this post based upon a comment in a post Julia Roy posted earlier today. If you haven't heard, Julia sent a message about a photo collection to five relevant groups, and Facebook promptly accused her of spamming.

I have a different definition of "social networking" than Erica Joy (comment number 9). In my view, what you were trying to do was clearly within the realm of social networking. These were people who wanted to hear your message - the fact that these people numbered in the hundreds should not negate the fact that you were engaging in social networking.

Frankly, I question whether Facebook qualifies as a "social network." Of course, since I post under an alias, I could never join Facebook anyway...

John Smith · 1 year ago

I guess your problem is solved now with facebook 'pages', specifically catering for businesses and celebrities and the like.

baratunde · 1 year ago

@john, not quite.

The IDEA of Pages is good, but it still needs to merge more with Groups. I do have a facebook Page btw, at http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=9179646182

There are many problems with Pages still.

* You can't invite your friends to become a fan in more than groups of 20 people at a time.

* If you send an update to your fans, they have no easy way to write you back. In fact, Pages don't support any messaging, but you can hack the page to add that ability

* Videos you have uploaded to your profile are not available to be put on your page. You have to re-upload them. Same with photos

* There's no directory of Pages.

Those are a few examples.

I think Pages are an improvement over the limitations of a Profile, but it's clearly a beta launch. We'll see.

Fashion Shop · 12 months ago

I have been receiving several spam emails from the groups i joined at Facebook and has since left them due to the huge amount of spam emails i received every month. Mostly are self promoting emails, if not advertisements of their sponsorers.

noni benefits · 11 months ago

Facebook or myspace? i prefer facebook.

Thanks

Obat Kanker · 11 months ago

Facebook is free....so we're at their mercy. I'll still cling on to them until the next better platform appears.

Website Monitoring · 11 months ago

The bitter truth is that if you use a free service, you find yourself fully dependent on this service. And one day it may happen that you encounter a 'we close your account' notice and you can't do anything about it. The best way out is having your own server with your own copy of a platform installed. In this case you have your business protected from other people's will however it makes it much more difficult to promote yourself.

SEO · 10 months ago

If it is said that Face book would always gives you better result than MySpace than I think it won’t be false.. Face book has captured the market by facilitating us with better security.. So it would be good to make such groups for more better interaction among people..

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Hotel Consultants · 6 months ago

Youtube has already started censoring people on their channel. Very soon, there would be no swear words allowed in all their videos.

ftafiles · 5 months ago

great blog

Hampers · 4 months ago

Becoming a facebook fan is not that all fancy if your intention is to build business through networking with your friends. What I didn't like though was the rampant entry of unknown individuals wherein the purpose is not to mingle but to ruin the trade. In general, facebook is a "gift" to us who are legit ones.

Nelson · 4 months ago

I am a user of Facebook & Myspace. But I like using Facebook more. It is more convient to use.

Hill · 4 months ago

Facebook is a good source of communication. One can easily communicate to there friends through this source.

hankjmatt · 4 months ago

As someone who's been a facebook advocate amongst my flittering social network friends I'm disappointed to hear this. Bottom line: these people ASKED for you to contact them by joining your group and facebook said, "eh, I don't think so..." I think there is power in you trying to mobilize your facebook group members to contact facebook with their complaints.

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chiropractic training · 3 months ago

Once again, very well observed Baratunde! Although social media networks like Facebook gives us plenty of advantages, it does have its own share of follies.