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Re: Me on Public Radio Tonight. Race, Class, Language, Imusness. What Would YOU Say?

Baratunde Thurston — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:10:56 -0000

yo. lovin this blog thing. thanks all for the comments.

@ms i may really have to use your line "All those shows are about is banging bitches and who had the biggest rims on their chariots." That's hot.

@ian great point about "not all black people" and the fact that folks like Cosby and C. Dolores Tucker (much has her technique turned me off) have been battling the wacker side of rap for a while. As for white people thinking that's how all black people act, well, if you're only experience with black people is the commoditized, made-for-TV version, what do you expect? This is the same system that leads chinese people in china to greet blacks with "wasup my nigga?"

@dinger great point about the market deciding in this case. it wasn't the government locking him up, and he's still "free" to say whatever, just not for CBS anymore. There's more to this argument (what happens when corporate outlets are the ONLY outlets and the speech offends the owner? but I can't get all up in there right now)

@tricia sorry about #5, I posted twice in rapid succession, adding that piece. You're not going crazy

also, thank you for bringing the hair issue into the discussion. au natural is often greeted as "oh no!" by many in the community

@tiffany find me examples of these rappers referring to women in any other way (note, I am NOT talking about ALL rappers, just the wack, hip-hop destroying, super commercial whores). I hear snoop, but mr. Girls Gone Wild host is just no credible when it comes to respecting women, at least not to me.

the focus on black women in my mind comes from video-ho imagery which tends to focus on black women

ok. that's all for me from now. keep it coming my people. the weather in iowa is nice!

Re: Me on Public Radio Tonight. Race, Class, Language, Imusness. What Would YOU Say?

ms — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:01:22 -0000

Sorry about the grammar in the last post. :-) shoes/shows

Re: Me on Public Radio Tonight. Race, Class, Language, Imusness. What Would YOU Say?

ms — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:58:34 -0000

First of all No. 2 is just jive, turkey.

As far as Michelle Malkin the videos and lyrics she spotlighted are to me is no different than an episode of The Tudors ( http://www.sho.com/site/tud... ) or Rome ( http://www.hbo.com/rome/ ). All those shoes are about is banging bitches and who had the biggest rims on their chariots. Exploitation of women and bragging about sexual exploits is not something hip-hop invented. The only difference between Mims and King Henry VIII is that Mims' exploits are based on fiction.

Re: Me on Public Radio Tonight. Race, Class, Language, Imusness. What Would YOU Say?

tiffany — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:39:17 -0000

here's a better question: why do we assume that when a rapper uses "bitch" or "ho" he is talking about black women exclusively or in our entirety?

now i have issues with snoop, *BUT* he nailed it on the head with this comment:

"[Rappers] are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money." (from mtv.com)

rappers' use of 'bitch' and 'ho' has a very specific context. it refers to a specific *kind* of woman -- one known as a skank, slut, tramp, or hussy outside of hip-hop circles -- not to *all* women, and not even to all *black* women.

Re: Me on Public Radio Tonight. Race, Class, Language, Imusness. What Would YOU Say?

Dinger — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:36:06 -0000

At times like these, I tend to defer to the free market to make the big decisions. There's no law prohibiting racist thought or offensive language. However, when one makes such statements publically while under an employers clock, I support the right for that employer to make personel changes based on how said comments may effect business positively or negatively. There's no need to defend or assault Imus. Pure moral arguements tend to run in circles. Ultimitely, the power to decide rests in the hands of the people who may or may not change the channel or turn the dial. Imus's employer believed the backlash would be detrimental to their corporation. Was that the correct decision? I think so, but the free market will still have the last word.

Do I sound too much like a libertarian? ...That was the point.

-Chris

Re: Me on Public Radio Tonight. Race, Class, Language, Imusness. What Would YOU Say?

Tricia — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:26:02 -0000

Ok so I don't know how I missed #5 - maybe it wasn't there when I started to write my comment? You addressed my suggestions! Anyway, can't wait to hear what happens tonight!

Re: Me on Public Radio Tonight. Race, Class, Language, Imusness. What Would YOU Say?

Tricia — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:18:13 -0000

I was just thinking about this topic this morning - and the two points-of-view in particular that have heard come out of this whole Imus thing which bother me: 1)Imus shouldn't be completely blamed for his comment because it's the type of thing said in rap music and 2)we (and by we, I mean black women - even though I guess this applies to black people regardless of gender) shouldn't be outraged by that kind of speech because we allow it in rap music and even dance to it at the club- and being called nappy-headed is something we do amongst ourselves.
Both speak to the issue of there being a double standard regarding who gets to say what - but my thoughts:
As #1 - being called a "nappy headed ho" is unacceptable regardless of who is doing the calling. Clearly there is a double standard that rappers and the music industry has been profiting from - and its something that black people in this country need to examine and change. But the double standard doesn't justify Imus' comment - one is not justified in wrongdoing by the wrongdoing of another - even if latter has gotten away with it.
As for 2- Last time I checked, black people have a sensitivity about the whole "nappy headed" thing, regardless of the race of the person saying it (read, even when a black person says it!) It's that stigma that motivates many a woman to relax their hair and/or get a weave (which in effect motivates a billion dollar black hair care industry) and fuels many a nasty statement made to those of us who decide to shed our relaxed strands and embrace our "nappier" hair. I'm speaking from personal experience here - it's not nice, in the least.
Also, women with any kind of self respect don't like to be called hos, plain and simple - hence the reaction to Don Imus' comment. So why can't we be sensitive to it if we - or at least a group of us - are called nappy headed hos publicly! We have a right to act out against that type of language!

Those are just my two (maybe more like four) cents on the issue... another thing you might want to discuss are the real motivations for Imus' firing - Does CBS really care about the content of Imus' comment or do they care more about the impact his comment had on the advertising revenue they once gained from his show? Should he really been fired considering this was apparently his MO? What about first amendment issues involved? However reprehensible, do you believe his speech was protected by the first amendment?

Maybe you can also discuss how this whole thing has forced many black people to face up to the double standard we've been living with regarding misogynistic sentiments expressed in popular music and what needs to be done towards obliterating the double standard.

I hope some of this is helpful. Good luck!

Re: Me on Public Radio Tonight. Race, Class, Language, Imusness. What Would YOU Say?

Ian — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:09:29 -0000

I think you should also challenge the notion that "it's ok for black people to say it." You may want to point out rappers and other black Americans also catch a lot of flack from the Black community for their choice of words. Think of Bill Cosby's recent tirades against the Black Community. Think about the sisters at Spelman who boycott that rapper's concert. Think about the uncounted thousands (millions?) of Black Americans who refuse to watch BET. Just being black doesn't give one the right to say these things. Black people do not escape these criticisms either.

You may also want to point out that the majority of those who purchase/support the rap industry are white. Also the major networks/media outlets that distribute the images/messages of the rap industry are largely white. Therefore, the pressures within the industry push rappers to appeal to their white audience and their white executives, not to the masses of black Americans. So basically, rappers are an example of what WHITE people think is cool to say, not an example of what black people think is cool to say.

Lastly, you may want to mention how this event has really exposed how racist white people continue to be. By even saying that "black people say it," they have revealed their impression of black norms of behavior. They think that Black people walk around cursing and disrespecting women left and right. Of course, in reality, this is not the norm in black America (perhaps the cursing is starting to be - but certainly not the overt misogyny). And to think that we accept this kind of behavior is even more racist. You and I both know the reactions I would get if I walked around calling women b*tches and hoes.