DISQUS

Joel · 1 year ago

*Sigh* Sarcasm just ain't funny. Just about everyone pays higher taxes under Obama's plan, if you look at the overall effect of his multiple tax proposals. Middle-class families will pay effective marginal tax rates equal to or higher than what they pay now, and the poor will be taxed at rates higher than what the rich have to pay under Bush! Obama's plan only works if you take it in bits and pieces and ignore the big picture--no wonder the Economist called it misleading. Also, the issue isn't Joe the Plumber. It's Obama's response to the question. And the way the media has gone after Joe is a scary sign of what might happen to free speech in Obama's reign. But nothing could be worse than Bush... right?

baratunde · 1 year ago

you lost me at "sarcasm just ain't funny."

baratunde · 1 year ago

as for threats to free speech, you're grasping at straws there. your candidate is the one barring reporters from talking to citizens at public rallies. not mine. your candidate is the one locking his own VP up for fear she'll say something stupid. not mine.

truth be told, i don't trust any information you present anymore. your opening and closing statements are both utterly ridiculous. no reasonable person could agree with either of them.

truth be told, i don't care about mccain's tax policy. he's decided to play with fear and hate in the most destructive way. he's decided to appeal to our darker demons. he's not a leader, and his plummet from honor has been a sad thing to watch for someone who thinks so highly of himself and who i used to respect

Joel · 1 year ago

Baratunde, you've started believing the Obama campaign's propaganda. Palin has been quite accessible to the media--far more than Joe Biden, who hasn't been available to the press for a month and spent today not talking to anyone. I can tell you from firsthand experience that reporters have full access to people attending McCain/Palin rallies. You might not "trust" what I'm telling you, but you've also just said you don't care about the facts anyway. You made a 30-second ad inviting people to examine the facts, and now you say facts don't matter? Instead you just claim I'm ridiculous and unreasonable. That's debate, I guess, in the Obama era. McCain is absolutely not appealing to "demons"; he's squashed any attempt by the GOP to bring up Jeremiah Wright, which even Obama said was "fair game." Meanwhile, Obama has spent more money on negative ads than McCain has spent on ads of any kind.

baratunde · 1 year ago

i swear, this is the last time i respond to you on anything political. you'll write back in some way that distorts my message by saying i don't care about facts. that's your right. you get the last word, but you're a waste of my time right now and every moment with you is a moment away from winning this election.

what i'm saying is that mccain's refusal to immediately tamp down the ugliness and hate and his official public events speaks louder to me than his tax policy. he got credit for correcting a woman who said obama was an arab. his response: "no ma'am. he's a decent family man."

i thought you were smart once. somewhere inside you must see the problem with that response, so i won't spell it out to you as if you didn't have an ivy league degree

mccain and palin spent weeks painting obama as a terrorist and did NOTHING when people hurled the most vile and violent labels at him at their rallies.

so no, i don't care about "facts" when the larger fact is that these people missed an opportunity to lead. they were so desperate for enthusiasm that they stoked racism nd hatred.

you won't admit this because you refuse to see it. you make excuses for it, i'm sure, and i judge anyone harshly who doesn't draw a line in the sand on behavior like this.

when john mccain sanctions a campaign that paints a sitting U.S. senator as a terrorist, i no longer care about john mccain's tax policy.

when people boo'd hillary clinton at a philly rally, obama stopped it. i was there. when people yell terrorist at mccain/palin rallies they do nothing.

john mccain has no leadership left in him. this was a test and he failed. so what that he's not bringing up wright. he gets no credit for that. he painted a u.s. senator as a terorist sympathizer and terrorist. he let his campaign officials command volunteers to tell voters obama doesn't salute the flag. he remined silent as his official campaign events turned horribly ugly.

so don't come at me about campaign propaganda.

i'm serious.
i'm done with this exchange.

have fun voting for a selfish, divisive, ugly, dishonorable shell of a man.

i hope you wake up one day.

wQ · 1 year ago

man joel, I'm going to do the online version of "let's take this outside" and say "let's take this to youtube"

Steve · 1 year ago

actually, sarcasm is fucking hilarious. And, Joel, your contention that Palin has been accessible to the press reveals your detachment from the world of facts.

Dee, Harvard grad · 1 year ago

Hey y'all, stop yelling. It's all good.

Obama is not the anti-Christ, and if you think that way you are wrong.

Baratunde was your friend when Bush was in office. I think you should be his friend when Obama is in office.

Fair is fair.

To Quit Smoking · 1 year ago

Joe the plumber's freaking paid by the Republicans to stage up all the unnecessary accusation. I am really surprised that the Republicans stoop so low. Thank God, Obama won. Now we have to pray nothing happens at the Inauguration ceremony as there are many people posting on the internet that they would assassinate Obama.

Joel · 1 year ago

What you've revealed is the rage behind Obama's message of "hope." It's sad, really, that someone I considered one of my best friends in college would respond the way you have--not just in this exchange but others. Instead of informed dialogue, you hurl insults ("I thought you were smart once"). You demonize those who dare to disagree--like Michelle Malkin, who you accused of racism. You just hear one side of the story. I hope *you* wake up one day, Baratunde, and wonder whether all this anger was really worth the effort on behalf of a politician. When there's this kind of rage on the other side of comedy, the joke is on you, my friend.

Karoli · 1 year ago

Anyone who thinks there isn't anger under Obama's hope message is kidding themselves. And for me, at least, that anger burns hot. I'm angry about just about everything that's been shoved down my throat over the last 8 years because my voice was a minority voice that didn't matter.

Now I'm using it. And I'm speaking my mind. And yeah, I'm angry.

When McCain thinks it's a good idea to put someone within arm's reach of the presidency who does not understand at all what the role of the vice president really does, it's appalling. Beauty contestants belong in Miss America pageants, not the most important election of my lifetime. By his own admission, Palin was a 'calculated political decision' intended to solidify the far right base that was not sold on McCain. That's his right, but why on earth did he gamble on HER, particularly when she doesn't understand the Constitution.

So yes, you will hear anger under the hope. Because for many of us, our dreams and hopes and patriotism and even citizenship have been challenged by the mean-spirited authoritarian people who have been pulling the strings and wrecking our lives.

Deal with it.

Signed,
white, middle aged, female business owner.

reechard · 1 year ago

How special! Do you just troll here or are others graced by your commentary as well?

Karoli · 1 year ago

Yep, I even blog. and I twitter like a madwoman, causing anyone who is not a political junkie to cringe when I'm online.

In my other life, I own a business which is about to shut down because I can no longer afford to maintain it, and I work online for my medical benefits.

I'm pretty much all over the internet, not a troll, just someone who is tired of being kicked around by our government, lied to, and laughed at by Messrs Bush and Cheney while they throw the Constitution under the bus.

Karoli · 1 year ago

Oh, and ps...

I'm married to a Republican. For over 20 years. We've managed to hold it together, and it seems as though friends ought to as well.

reechard · 1 year ago

No, oops! I was replying to Joel, LOL! I think you're fab. Thanks for keeping the troll honest.... And congrats on your marriage. I know it looks like I called you a troll but if you look closer you will see I'm at same indent as you, i.e. I replied to Joel. Rock on, Karoli!

Karoli · 1 year ago

(Giggle). Those indents confuse me every time. As for the marriage...my republican husband is actually turning to being an Obamacan...mostly thanks to Sarah Palin, who he has no respect for or confidence in.

However, I'll believe it when he avtually casts his ballot. :D

reechard · 1 year ago

And by "troll" i mean Joel is an unfriendly, and has an "unclaimed" profile. I''m not just slandering him, I'm challenging him to come out or let the "troll" moniker stick :-)

Dee, Harvard grad · 1 year ago

see my comment below

let cooler heads prevail